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+--- Thread: Bend Tool selection names is confusing (/showthread.php?tid=116)
RE: Bend Tool selection names is confusing - Fonte Boa - 12-19-2012
Without "Top Point Clamp" and "Botton Point Clamp" you will no be able to isolate the area to be deformed.
Take a look at this another video:
the intention is deform just the blue area.
Observe where i positioned "Center": this is important.
Observe too how i used "Top Point Clamp" and "Botton Point Clamp" to delimitate the area to be deformed.
Finally, observe that JUST that area was deformed: the rest rotates, but its volume is INTACT!
In your last picture (as the anterior two ones too), you are performing a Bend | Plastic Bend operation, not a real Bend Clamped | Clamped Plastic Bend.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8egcNRNTpKE&feature=youtu.be
Try to bend just the intermediate blue faces of your last picture, keeping the rest intact, generating an "U" shape, or an "L" one (with the corner rounded): you will need Bend Clamped!!! There is no way to simplify/unify this: the two commands are enterely differents!
Another approach to make you understand.
(i've created a text and Combine it with the bar, ok?!)
Left one was deformed by using Bend|Plastic Bend;
Right one by using Bend Clamped | Clamped Plastic Bend.
Obser how the letters at left were deformed
and how they are intact at right!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNa7SFpzulA&feature=youtu.be
RE: Bend Tool selection names is confusing - puzzledpaul - 12-19-2012
Consolidating Rod op and a clamp (either one) would then raise the issue of how to describe what this combo does ... and when the angular orientation of rod top (for twisting as well as bending) compared with bend centre is taken on board, there's more scope for confusion - imo.
Since the angle info readout is based on the no of sections between rod top and bend centre ... both the previous pics make sense (sorta
) to me ... because in the LH pic there are double the No of sections [8] compared with the RH pic. The fact that the other 90 deg hasn't been achieved is only because the last 4 have been clamped.I generally pick the neighbouring element to bend centre for rod top ... drags quicker and since the angle readout is then / section, I know exactly what's going on ... even if maths becomes involved
Bending 90deg on a 7 segment rod would be an exception, of course ...
Whilst I agree that the labels / help need to be re-visited ... I think the controls are ok.
Gotta bear in mind that any changes made to the commands themselves have got to make sense / be consistant across all 6 options for bend.
Unsure about 'bend centre' btw ... because, as here (PC ex) , it's not in the centre of the bend.
pp
RE: Bend Tool selection names is confusing - puzzledpaul - 12-19-2012
Luiz - rod top and one of the clamp points could probably be combined, but (imo) it'd add to the confusion.
Rod top - as I see it, is an arbitrary point that (apart from the twisting aspect) can be placed anywhere (sensible)... with the user seeing 2 differences in behaviour - speed of drag and angular readout.
pp
RE: Bend Tool selection names is confusing - PeterC (PC) - 12-19-2012
Noooo, I never said get rid of bend clamped, sorry if it came across like that. And I did use Bend Clamped in the last two pics, you can see where I point out where I placed the various reference points.
I'm just saying can't we unify "Rod Top" and "Top Clamp"? within the Bend Clamped command
We do need Top and Bottom clamp the define the area to be deformed, just like you say. But with that said, what's the point of 'rod top' then? That's all I'm asking :}
Here's what you did in the video, but when it asks for "Top" (1:35ish or so) I can literally select any of the 15 edges on that side (except the one you picked as 'center') and end up with the same results.. So why not combine Top/Clamp Top into one?
![[Image: TOP_irrelevant_zpsd67d4892.jpg]](http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y65/PeterChov/Hidden/TOP_irrelevant_zpsd67d4892.jpg)
EDIT: Oh God, you added a bunch, and Pzp Posted twice while I was putting this together (I'm slow
)Leme read what you guys added...
RE: Bend Tool selection names is confusing - puzzledpaul - 12-19-2012
(12-19-2012, 08:46 PM)PeterC (PC) Wrote: We still need Bottom Clamp, true enough. But could we not consolidate Bar Top and Top Clamp? I'm trying to think if an example when you'd need both and can't seem to think of it..
Thinking about this a bit more ... whilst it's likely you'd be able to get away with a combo for a flat, non-twisted bent object ... placing the rod top at a clamp point would limit the degree of twist achievable for any given bend angle.
Being able to place the rod top anywhere allows user to twist to different extents, depending on geom.
pp
RE: Bend Tool selection names is confusing - puzzledpaul - 12-19-2012
Peter - try your object as in post 26, with bend centre being an edge,as shown - but rod top a vert.
Then compare putting rod top one(blue) section away from centre and 5 (blue)sections from centre.
pp
RE: Bend Tool selection names is confusing - PeterC (PC) - 12-19-2012
Fair enough, I don't have my head around how it works or how I'd control it exactly. Seems more like an unintended deformation I'd have to watch out to avoid
But a separate "rod top" input lets you add a spin/twist to the bend. That's what I was missing then, thanks Paul Guess both Top and Top Clamp gotta stay then
RE: Bend Tool selection names is confusing - puzzledpaul - 12-19-2012
(12-19-2012, 10:55 PM)PeterC (PC) Wrote: Seems more like an unintended deformation I'd have to watch out to avoid ...
Yep - probably sums it up for many situations - but, iirc, it's probably just the job for a 180deg pipe U bend that's got an angle between its input and output
pp
RE: Bend Tool selection names is confusing - PeterC (PC) - 12-19-2012
I'd just bend it to the 180 degrees U shape along one axis, then bend it again along a perpendicular one to get the desired twist
Neat, precised and controlled.. How the hek I'd be able to pull that off in any kind'a controlled/predictable manner using Clamped Bend's "rod top" as some weird-twisty-offset-variable™ is totally beyond me 
But you guys win, Rod Top can stay*, the extra click every time won't kill me
Was a cool discussion in any case guys, I think we all learned something
*not that I have any say in it hah
RE: Bend Tool selection names is confusing - oort - 12-20-2012
PC,
I too was starting to wonder what the point of the second click "Rod Top" was. Now I see that it is needed for twisty bends...
Now that throws out all my ideas of what to call that point. Maybe "Rod Top" isn't that bad after all...
Fonte Boa,
Maybe another video is needed to show twisty bends???
P.S. I miss your voice instructions in the above videos...
oort