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+--- Thread: Bend Tool selection names is confusing (/showthread.php?tid=116)
Bend Tool selection names is confusing - oort - 12-18-2012
Since PC got confused as well, I figured I would start a thread on the subject in the Gripes & Grumbles. I mentioned some time ago in the old forum that the Bend tool was confusing because the prompts are not clear about what one is selecting.
Here is what PC said in another thread (quoted without permission...
).Quote:I think the biggest problem with Bend/Clamped Bend might be the completely arbitrary names, like rod "top","bottom" and "center" (according to whom? what if the rod is laying horizontally and there is no top or bottom? Tongue ) Whenever it asked for 'rod center' for example I would.. well.. selected the center of the section I wanted to bend.. :} but that would always result in both ends of the section bending out and away from the rest of the mesh, making it useless. I thought I just 'clamped' the bottom dammit, why is it moving away from the mesh? I would think.. Rod "center" actually = Rod 'bend around/from point'??? with that in mind things started to behave more as I'd expect.
I'd also change Bend normal to always be bend axis I think.. if I'm gonna bend a pipe to the Left or Right, I'm obviously gonna look at it from the Front.. so selecting a point in the center of the rod (facing me, an axis to bend around) seems much more logical than having to rotate the view, and selecting a point on the side.. facing left/right.. but that's a separate issue I guess
Edit: Here is a quote of myself from the old forum.
Quote:With most Wings3d commands it is easy to figure the tool out without a tutorial. I guess Bend needs to be thought of as bending a rod (doesn't have to be a rod). Still it seems to me that "Rod Center" isn't clear enough.
Maybe "Bend Base Point" would be better than "Rod Center"?
"Rod Top" could be "Control Point" and
"Bend Normal" is perfect as is.
And another one...
Quote:For Basic Bend I think the following might be better???
"Rod Center" might be better as "Bend Start/Control Point".
"Rod Top" might be better as "Bend Range"???
"Bend Normal" is perfect as it is.
And here is a tip from Fonte Boa clarifying things in the old forum.
Quote:BEND NORMAL
remembering
the first step in gif is "rod center" (this point will remain static)
the second step is "rod top" (the end point that will be affect by operation)
and the third one is "bend normal" (Bend "direction")
oort
RE: Bend Tool selection names is confusing - PeterC (PC) - 12-19-2012
First, how dare you quote me without permission?! Raaaawr *sets furniture on fire* jk
I've got a good handle on all the bends now I think. But yea, the secret trick to learning it was totally ignoring the names hehe..
In some ways if Wings used totally random labels and told you to select the "blue dinosaur", "pirate owl", and "shadey banana" as control points it might actually be better haha.. at least you'd be forced to figure it out. As it is now though, when people try to learn Bending they'll often actually make "a rod" cylinder object to experiment on. So when wings specifically tells them to select the Rod Center, Rod Top, and Rod Bottom they'll do just that :} I selected the part of the rod I wanted to bend and did everything Wings asked me to, why isn't Clamped Bend working the way I want it to?? D:
Rod Center is what tripped me up the most, 'Bend Start' or 'Bend base Point' as you said would both be better :] What's everyone think?
RE: Bend Tool selection names is confusing - Fonte Boa - 12-19-2012
"rod botton" and "rod top" are in reality
"top clamp point" and "botton clamp point"
and they just appear when you are using Bend Clamped
(5 steps operation)
to define the object region that will be really "bended".
Otherway
using Bend | Plastic Bend
(3 steps operation)
user will have just to indicate
a. start
b. a reference
c. direction
RE: Bend Tool selection names is confusing - oort - 12-19-2012
I think that Bend Clamped is confusing in its prompts as well. When bending metal the clamped part is the part that does not bend. So maybe...
"Top Clamp Point" should be "Bend Start"
"Bottom Clamp Point" should be "Bend End"
To keep Bend (3 step) different maybe...
"Rod Center" should be "Control Point"
"Rod Top" should be "Bend Range" or "Bend Distance"
"Bend Normal" should be "Bend Direction"
Fonte Boa,
The videos you posted on Bend are very informative and should help new users of the bend tool.
oort
RE: Bend Tool selection names is confusing - PeterC (PC) - 12-19-2012
It's tempting to call Top "Bend-To".. "End", "Range", etc.. But of course the model will bend even beyond that point :}
It's more of a control/reference point of sorts? That's the impression I got while watching FB's new Bend vids at least, I wondered how he was picking his "Top" and started playing around to see what setting Rod Top on different parts of the mesh did. User input = Top's bend angle..
![[Image: BendTOP_zps7cb9b307.jpg]](http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y65/PeterChov/Hidden/BendTOP_zps7cb9b307.jpg)
RE: Bend Tool selection names is confusing - oort - 12-19-2012
Is there a real world name for that "Top" point when you bend pipe or a piece of metal? The further out the "Top" point the weaker/softer/larger the bend radius...
oort
RE: Bend Tool selection names is confusing - PeterC (PC) - 12-19-2012
Ok, so you can't simply say 'bend this model by 90 degrees'
We need some kind of "Rod Top" style a point of reference..What if we simplified things by simply combining 'Top' and 'Clamp' tho? Wouldn't we still be able to do all the same things, or am I missing something?
![[Image: BendProposal_zps2ddbf73a.jpg]](http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y65/PeterChov/Hidden/BendProposal_zps2ddbf73a.jpg)
RE: Bend Tool selection names is confusing - Fonte Boa - 12-19-2012
<< What if we simplified things by simply combining 'Top' and 'Clamp' tho? >>
It is necessary to keep Bend Clamped. In your last pictures examples, you are ever bending the bar from one of its extremities. If you bend it from its center (lets say), both sides will rotate: you will need Bend Clamped to make Wings bend just half bar (restricting the deformed area to that one you defined between "Top Clamp Point" and "Botton Clamp Point").
Beyond this, Bend is a powerful and complex tool, which possibilities definitely arent few. "Simplify" is equivalent to reduce the possibilities of its universe.
RE: Bend Tool selection names is confusing - oort - 12-19-2012
Fonte Boa,
The image you posted in the tutorial section is very good for discussion here.
Since "Rod Center" is a point that does not move, it makes sense to me to call that a "Control Point".
Maybe "Rod Top" should be "Pressure Point", since that is the point at which you push or pull the rod???
oort
RE: Bend Tool selection names is confusing - PeterC (PC) - 12-19-2012
We still need Bottom Clamp, true enough. But could we not consolidate Bar Top and Top Clamp? I'm trying to think if an example when you'd need both and can't seem to think of it..
You'll see here how putting Top and Top Clamp in different spots still got me the same result.. The only difference being on the left I had to bend by 180 degrees, while on the right I only Bent by 90 (which makes more sense anyway, the bend taking place is obviously 90 degrees, not 180) It's possible I'm overlooking something tho :}
![[Image: BendClampConsolidate_zps4064e959.jpg]](http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y65/PeterChov/Hidden/BendClampConsolidate_zps4064e959.jpg)