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+--- Thread: Doubt about Default Material (/showthread.php?tid=118)
RE: Doubt about Default Material - Kruzschev - 03-23-2014
heh, arent you overdoing it a bit , MikeJ? Maybe he just had a bad day (of course I dont speak for him so I dont know either)
And about how the (default) material should be handled...
maybe just let the user decide how the default materials should be handled
like for example:
Option 1: Keep the default one and discharge the current one
Option 2: Replace the current one
Option 3: Keep both materials
perhaps placed in Settings panel or in par with Micheus merge options
RE: Doubt about Default Material - MikeJ - 03-23-2014
Probably.
But as I said, all of you old-timers are probably used to this being a petty dictatorship. I just found out. So you will have to pardon my indignation.
I find it rather humorous though that you suggest options of how it should be handled in the future when he has made it quite clear that the default material will stay inviolate because that's the way he likes it. He doesn't care what the user wants, only what he wants.
RE: Doubt about Default Material - oort - 03-24-2014
Dgud, being the lead developer, has the right to reject changes if he feels they do not fit well into the design of Wings3D. Someone has to take that role otherwise Wings3D wouldn't be the great program it is today...
I wonder if he would be less opposed if the changes were being made under Edit > Preferences instead of in the Material Editor. From my reading of his comments that does not seem to be the case...
To me being able to change the material default settings is not important since it is about as important to me as what color the menus are. It has no impact on modeling and when the model is finished a new material should be created and assigned to the object, assuming you plan to render the object.
oort
RE: Doubt about Default Material - Fonte Boa - 03-24-2014
Where did you read Dgud reasons to not accept Micheus idea?
RE: Doubt about Default Material - MikeJ - 03-24-2014
Go back to the Micheus post where he linked the pull request number. Follow the link.
RE: Doubt about Default Material - Fonte Boa - 03-24-2014
Thanks. I've read it and i am really surprise the reasons for not accept the possibility of change default material are based in a "dont like" argument... I was imagining Dgud didnt accept Micheus addon because the Wings definition for default material had some importance to the consistence of the general code.
In my opinion, if Wings offers so many resources for UI customization, i cant see reasons (except if related to the general Wings code consistence needs) for refuse another one like the other ones under Preferences. Furthermore i think default material is more related to UI customization and user preferences than to any other aspect...
Anyway, some unofficial beams are ever welcomed, Micheus: thanks.
RE: Doubt about Default Material - MikeJ - 03-24-2014
As I stated before, I was also quite surprised by his response. His reasons for denying the patch make two things fairly clear to me:
First off, he values his own personal opinion over that of the user community who took the time to design and develop a patch that improves the functionality of Wings3D while not changing the default behavior of Wings3D at all.
Secondly, it seems fairly clear that he did not even take the time to understand what the patch does. His objections seem to center around the fact that he likes the default material the way it is and doesn't want to include the patch because he doesn't want the default material changed. If he had actually taken the time to understand what the patch does he would understand that, by default, the patch does absolutely nothing except provide the user with more options.
If the Wings3D user wants to use the same tired old flat gray material that has been the default material in Wings3D for the last 372 years of development, then all they need to do is… Nothing. By default the patch doesn't change Wings3D's functionality at all. If however, they want to have the default material be something different, the patch now allows them to make that change.
Since when is it against the design tenets of Wings3D to not allow the user to have more options? Heck, every single functionality in Wings3D has 57 different options! Why is this any different?
RE: Doubt about Default Material - dgud - 03-24-2014
Sorry for the short answer but I had a bad hair day...
I don't like the current way of changing the default material color, but that was added when I was not in charge and thus I don't want to make it worse.
The default color should be the same, when I send the model to someone else,
or when I open the model with a different theme.
A default material is a default material, it is predefined if you don't like create it another material,
it takes five seconds. Or import another scene with it, see Micheus other patch..
It confuses people, hey, it confuses me and I'm a dev.
I couldn't figure out why I was getting error messages when I had opened a model after changing theme, and got several default materials.
What should be changeable is the shaders, but currently the shaders are a mess and a bad hack,
and desperately needs to be reworked and incorporated better into the code.
And also I want to rewrite how materials is handled completely, but I'm to old to only sleep 3 hours per night..nowadays..so it takes time.
RE: Doubt about Default Material - MikeJ - 03-24-2014
Dan,
Thanks for taking the time to respond.
(03-24-2014, 08:10 PM)dgud Wrote: The default color should be the same, when I send the model to someone else,
or when I open the model with a different theme.
How many people send models to someone else in this community? What percentage of the users are you catering to with this attitude? Even 1%? I doubt it. And even if they do send models to someone else, they are expecting to get a whole mess of other things any way as the current functionality exists, so they are prepared for dealing with extraneous materials, lights, objects etc.
And as to opening the model with a different theme, I'll bet you most users don't swap themes either. And even if they do, adjusting the default material in a new theme is an extremely minor price to pay for the ability to be able to change the default material if you need to. Additionally, changing themes currently results in multiple default materials because Wings3D forces default materials on you that are dependent on the themes.
(03-24-2014, 08:10 PM)dgud Wrote: A default material is a default material, it is predefined if you don't like create it another material,
it takes five seconds.
As I already stated above, creating a new material and changing the default material are very different things. Creating a second material does not allow any newly created object in the scene to contain the material that you want. It forces you to have to manually add the second material to every single object you create.
(03-24-2014, 08:10 PM)dgud Wrote: I couldn't figure out why I was getting error messages when I had opened a model after changing theme, and got several default materials.
The reason you are getting so many default materials is because Wings3D forces you to have only one default material. So any changes you make to that material are then overwritten every time you close and reopen Wings3D or change themes to a theme that forces a different default material on you. It is that very inflexibility in Wings3D that is being worked on with this patch.
And once again your response seems to indicate that you are under the impression that this patch forces the default material in Wings3D to change. The default behavior of Wings3D is unchanged by this patch. So anyone who feels like you will simply not change the default material!
RE: Doubt about Default Material - Justanother1 - 03-25-2014
Wow, seems this thread belongs on WikiLeaks! ... First Obama, now Dgud and Micheus? .. lol you gotta be .. F#$k!n Kidding ME! .... it's the Default Mat ... I normally add 3-4 mats right out of the gate, just to get perspective! Yes before UV-mapping..... Hmm but these Software Nazi's just won't budge huh?? Well fight the good fight... Now if anyone seriously mentions getting the Environment Shader to work as a Mat, rather than the whole viewport ... then wake me, I'm going back to sleep .. zzzzzzzzzzzz