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The future of new modeling tools - Printable Version

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RE: The future of new modeling tools - ggaliens - 09-20-2013

Neo ... you said ...
"Namely, I am referring to the bend tool. Its pretty ambiguous."

A agree about the default bending tools.

RE: The future of new modeling tools - neostyles - 11-02-2013

This is where widgets and a non linear workflow would really come in handy imo. Instead of the different "steps" (which I think is the source of confusion for a lot of people), you could just have the ability to adjust things in real time. This would also have the benefit of allowing the user to quickly and efficiently get the results they are looking for without so much trial and error.

The current text tool is rather outdated and cumbersome too. Why not just just have wings scan your font directory at startup like photoshop does. Then, instead of having to type in the link to the font manually, we could just choose one. Presumable like the other font options, it would also just update in real time. Smile

RE: The future of new modeling tools - bezzmx - 12-01-2013

(06-26-2013, 10:45 PM)oort Wrote: Most Wings3D users don't miss or want manipulators.

Maybe because users who want manipulators avoid to be a Wings3D users? "right click - select option - right click - select option" is too long way for fast modeling. Ok - hotkeys. But one key for MoveX, another for MoveY ... Move, Rotate, Scale - 9 hotkeys just for the basic operations. Not good. Blender`s hotkeys combos are more usefull.

RE: The future of new modeling tools - Justanother1 - 12-04-2013

No, your just used to Blender. Anything you want can be a Shortcut in Wings3d, Just have to remember where you put it. I have Mirror on and off, Hard and Soft Edges, and the ML - expand to charted region. Also Remember, Recall selection. The Edge-loop and Edge-ring are Stock shortcuts I use a lot.

RE: The future of new modeling tools - neostyles - 12-06-2013

(12-04-2013, 09:46 PM)Justanother1 Wrote: No, your just used to Blender. Anything you want can be a Shortcut in Wings3d, Just have to remember where you put it. I have Mirror on and off, Hard and Soft Edges, and the ML - expand to charted region. Also Remember, Recall selection. The Edge-loop and Edge-ring are Stock shortcuts I use a lot.

Blender has tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of users. I think it is safe to assume that they are doing something right.

btw, maybe it's just me but i dont really see the point of having an additional set of buttons for selection modes.

The problem with wings's user interface, imo, lies in the lack of feedback for the user. You have operations (such as the aforementioned) bend tool that just leave the user hanging. I never actually figured it out figured it out and just with ggaliens simple bend tool. Awesome plug in. Smile

There just isnt enough to suggest a "change in state." By this i mean the different "steps" of the bend. The program doesnt do a very good job of communicating what exactly you are supposed to do. This is where widgets would come in handy. For example, when you are choosing the center of the bend wings could provide you with a little point or something that represents the center of the bend which the program would then update your results in real time. An added benefit of this is that the workflow would be less linear and about

step A => step B => step c

and more about letting the user adjust things as they see fit.

RE: The future of new modeling tools - puzzledpaul - 12-06-2013

Since both incarnations of Bend have been mentioned - all I'll say is that I doubt that Luiz (Fonte Boa) would get very far with his very useful video tuts that feature Bend ... if he'd been using the ML version.

Long time since I've used / tested the ML bend, but it'd have to have changed (a lot) for any serious user to prefer it over the default version, imo.

lack of interactivity is one aspect I remember ... having to ok, eyeball, undo if wrong, redo, rinse repeat ... in a 'suck it and see situation' is one (of many) problems.

Whilst nothing is perfect (including default bend), what I thought was ridiculous was for anyone to completely re-write a tool, rather than improve what already existed ... especially when the 'new, supposedly improved' tool lagged way behind the original in versatility / power etc.

This has (combined with other issues) - unfortunately - imo - been the story behind many 'so called' improved versions of tools from the ML stable.

How anyone can make a fair, logical comparison of the pros / cons etc of the 2 Bend versions, when they state that they 'never actually figured it out' ... is beyond me too Smile

If an 'ol codger like me can do so ... it should be plain sailing for anyone else - that's serious about using wings.

pp

RE: The future of new modeling tools - Fonte Boa - 12-09-2013

Those Bend videos arent so relevant if people are lazy about perform a 3-step Wings tool operation (or 5, if using Clamp Bend, for example). I've spent my time repeating those tool steps until bend the geometry the way i want: not criticizing the actual tool "state".
The tool is fine, it is working without bugs and its logic is evident.
Why not to build your own references
(or use the geometry elements as references)
before ask for dummy/widgets?

i am working this way
and so happy here Smile

RE: The future of new modeling tools - TulipVorlax - 12-23-2013

I'm a tad sorry i have to say that i think it's true that Wings dont really communicate very well with the user.
Wings only "speak" with the user using two area of the screen : 1) the information area at the top of the viewport, 2) the bottom line wich is easilly missed by new users.
Even more, that line at the bottom can't be more that one line (currently) and the text it show must be short. So when you have a lot of control possibilies to display, it could be truncated on smaller screen or in others languages than english, when like in french things need more space to display properly.

I dont know if the information line at bottom could be made taller, but about 3 row of text could be shown to the user : 1) current operation information and shortcuts, 2&3) advices and regular help line. Or, any other suggestion other users here can think of. I had some other ideas but lost them while typing. Also, letting people switch from regular (single line) or "verbose" information line by clicking a small button could be nice. Like a panel flipping up and down..

I dont know how much work this feature would imply, but it would probably require more text in wings lang file, so more text to translate.

And about Blender, many years before finding about Wings 3D, i learned some basis usage of Blender so i can show my friend artist how to use it. He never was able to even begin because of 1) the mouse usage in Blender is very different than in any other Windows software (or so), 2) all text part shown on wigets related to some abreviation of english 3d modelling technical terms that seems tedious to learn for an old french speaking artist just switching from real word art to digital art for it's own amusement, and the same goes for the shortcut wich were the first letter of english terms (and it was impossible or hard to change them back then).

It's not because more people use a product that it's a better product. Is Windows a better product than Linux ? It's just that because more people use it, often not by choice but because everyone use it or because it is preinstalled, most software developer dont bother making their product for Linux, and this produce a vicious cycle. My friend artist also use Daz 3D and Bryce, wich have no Linux version.

Bryce is english only but so visual that it was much easier to learn than Blender. Bryce material lab may be less powerfull than what Blender was already offering, back then it seemed that we needed to learn about physics of light going through glass, water, translucent plastic before even hoping to make something in Blender that just vaguely ressembled to what we were expecting, trying to get.

Beside, Wings 3D workflow ressemble more to what real life sculpture is, with some extra since it's not real life. Meaning, like in real life, you can cut part of model as if using a knife on a piece of wood, you can push, pinch, deform the mesh like you would do with argile or clay.

But i must admit one thing : The first time we installed Wings 3D, we though that the UI was ugly or unappealing. And the fact that back then the french translation was bad and missing all accentuated letter didn't help. But Wings french translation was still better than the one of Blender (wich nobody ever bothered changing the language anyway), and after playing just a few day with Wings, my friend artist was already doing great and surprising things with it more easilly than with any other sortware we bothered trying/testing.

All theses years, i've continuated to install the new version of Blender on our computers hoping that my friend could learn it some day, but to much knowledge they never altered much the basis of how it operate, with that weird target widget that is moved around instead of selecting element when you click the mouse button. Yes, we can invert the button, but it's impossible to just get rid of that weird little target since most if not all operation is done according to it's location.

But enough with that, i've downloaded Sculptris and need to try it because Zbrush was one of the others software that was the most appealing to my friend artist because it even more ressemble to real world sculpting.

Sorry for my bad english.

RE: The future of new modeling tools - micheus - 12-23-2013

(12-23-2013, 03:30 AM)TulipVorlax Wrote: Even more, that line at the bottom can't be more that one line (currently) and the text it show must be short.
That is not really true - since the snapshot released on Dec/2012 - even it could not be so beautiful or someone find a situation that it can't work fine:
[Image: wings3d-infoLine_zps36af3d9b.jpg]
You can edit your french language file like I did here (if you need force new line use "\n").

RE: The future of new modeling tools - TulipVorlax - 12-23-2013

Whoooo....
I'm still on version 1.5.1.
What makes it take more space ? Inserting a line break the the help strings, or pulling it's border with the mouse ?
Now a have to download the last version...

Edit : Ok, tested : It auto adapt the text, that is really good.