understanding the 'extrude'?

[Misty Wisty]

started with a cube. applied hole to one face.

i selected the other faces, did an extrude, normal, outwards.

when i selected the face inside the cube (that was opposite the hole),
it's highlighted on both sides, outside and inside the cube.

i tried extruding that one face, but it's doing the same thing, both sides are being selected?
i was expecting 2 separate faces by now.


and i'm not seeing the new edges, but i'm gonna blame my netbook cheap graphics.


i know i could intrude it, but i wanted to see exactly what extrude does.

and there is something here called extrude shell. - the mystery deepens

in 95.5, extrude region, normals, seems to include extruding that opposite face. i can't select the inside face behind the hidden hole in 95.5, but selecting the outside face doesn't also select the inside face.

the new 1.4.1 extrude isn't exactly the old extrude region or extrude. extrude in the normals direction includes the edges.

extrude in 95.5 doesn't include the edges.

[PeterC (PC)]

Extrude's working fine, it's Hole that's tripping you up here I think.. There are no inside faces, just the backs of the outside ones.. Hence you click on one side the other (same poly) selects too. You normally wouldn't see those 'inside' faces, but whenever you use hole/hide on some polys, Wings forces the rest of that model's polys to display as double sided

Why are you using hole in this instance anyway if I may ask? What are you trying to achieve I mean? :] Wings needs "solid" meshes.. Hole is just a work-around feature to remove some faces so that they don't export out to other apps..
Might use hole to remove the 'cross-section' of model (the poly you'd select and use virtual mirror on in Wings) when modeling something symmetrical.. a human head for example.. that you plan to mirror/symmetry in some other program.
Or 'Hole' away the bottom of a tree trunk to save on poly-count, because you plan to plant those trees deep enough into the "ground" and are sure no one will ever see that part etc.
It's not really a modeling thing though, wouldn't use hole to to cut out a window through a wall for example (though I suppose you could, if doing some super low-poly work, and your walls have no thickness). Hope you know what I mean

[Wegg]

This really hangs people up. I much preferred the old hole material.

[Misty Wisty]

i'm not actually making anything at this point, just trying to understand what the commands do exactly. save on frustrations later on

i used hole so i could see better what the extrude was doing. by extruding all the faces but the one, i was making a new enclosed mesh.

hmm, alternatively, i could extrude all faces but the one and then loop cut out the one face. testing ...

[PeterC (PC)]

You should be able to see everything you need from the outside really..
Just think of extruding Wing's nice solid meshes as a working on lump of sculpting clay, you can extrude out bumps, or extrude in dents. What you see is what you get, there's no hidden secrets beneath the surface :}
Sticking your head INSIDE the lump of clay (really all that hole is doing, letting you see the model from the inside out) won't reveal any modeling insight.. you'll just end up with clay in your hair jk
Seriously though, being a solid mesh modeler, Wings does everything on the outside surface.. You can't select two corner verts on diagonally opposing sides of a cube and connect them with a new edge through the inside of the model for example. And selecting ALL faces of a cube and Extrude>Normal'ing them outwards is the same as simply scaling the cube up (there's no geometry underneath these 'new' faces if that's what you were wondering) so using hole to peek under the surface from the inside won't really reveal anything, it'll just confuse things, I'd stay away

I don't think there's a way to use extrude to fill up the 'hole' and make the mesh enclosed again by the way.. selecting and collapsing the four edges of that hole "window" would do the trick, but not extrude.
Note that selecting any of the polys inside the box (while looking into it through 'hole' window) will select the poly from the outside too, and the "window" itself has no thickness at all.. even if you add thickness by extruding out the polys just around the opening, if you then select one of the closer-to-the-inside verts on one of the window's corners and hit Aim.. then Zoom 'inside' the model, and start rotating the camera around you'll see how fakey it all is (see attached)

Phew.. I talk/write too much. Sorry about that, just tryin' to be helpful ´:]

"preferred the old hole material" agreed, sorry devs

[micheus]

I don't think there's a way to use extrude to fill up the 'hole' and make the mesh enclosed again by the way...

As in any other application, some conceptual issues needs to be assimilated.
If you understood the Wings' Hole concept, and checked the options available for that, you should to know that if you want it enclosed again you will need to select a boundary face and use the RMB option - for remove the adjacent holes. Simple like that.

We do not have a face with two sides on Wings3d. If we want an interior for the object, then we'll need to use intrude, or if no "hole" can exists, we can use a copy of it inverted and then group them.

As in all application we need to learn how to use the available tolls. We always would like to get the best of all worlds, but we can't.

PC, you can get your hole material easily, just create it as it was already suggested here in the forum. I still prefer the WYSIWYG concept.

[yaak]

I notice the uploaded pics in this thread are not viewable either!
Notice to Webmaster....Its time to check whats causing the problem with the MyBB forum software!