Pure newbie needs some help for POV-Ray plugin

[sciroccorics]

Hello everybody,

This is my first post on this forum. I've been using Wings3D for several years, watched hours of video tutos, and played dozens of hours with the software. So, from the modelling point of view, I guess that I'm clearly not a beginner: I managed to create some very complex models in the past.

On the other hand, I'm a pure newbie as far as rendering is concerned. I would like to make some pretty rendering using POV-ray, but the popup window that displays when using File -> Render -> POV-Ray is quite impressive for a beginner.

I've tried to select some options, but all the resulting images that I get are always extremely bad looking : very dark pictures, very crude shadows, and so on. I've read the POV-Ray manual, but it details the POV-Ray file format, which is not directly related to the way to achieve these features by exporting scenes from Wings3D.

So I would like to know if somebody could post some sample ".wings" files, illustrating how to set parameters in the POV-Ray" tab for Light and Material, and some snapshot for the configuration of the POV-Ray rendering window parameters. I guess that would really help me to start in the right direction.

Thanks in advance for any help !

[micheus]

Sorry for the delay to anwser.

I used POV-Ray long time ago. After that I started to play with Kerkythea since it's basically a standalone render with its own UI.
When using POV-Ray it was common I tweak the exported file in order to get better look on renders. That means I exported the file and started the POV-Ray UI outside of Wings3D. It's also easier - and maybe faster - to change some adjusts and re-render the scene on its UI.

I've read the POV-Ray manual, but it details the POV-Ray file format, which is not directly related to the way to achieve these features by exporting scenes from Wings3D.

As you already knows about the POV-Ray file format, maybe you can try that path too.

A couple of years I had added many POV-Ray options to the Wings3D which was not available before - except by hacking the POV-Ray files.

I've tried to select some options, but all the resulting images that I get are always extremely bad looking : very dark pictures, very crude shadows, and so on.

That will depend on the lights you use and its values set. These informations you got from POV-Ray docs can be applied in Wings3D too.
If you want soft shadows you will need to use Environment lights (via Ambient), Light Area or Spot. Everything else will result in sharp shadows.
The radiosity settings also has influence on that. There are some options and I recommend you test them using a simple scene - some settings will increase the quality, but also the time to finish the render.

Let the best setting and AA option to be set at the end, when you already harmonised the entire scene - they will require more render time. I used to start with the Normal or Fast option.

About the lights you can find some info on this thread: POV-Ray - Tips
The POV-Ray [plugin] thread also contains some informations we talked about during its improvement. Here some pages with lights references: page #6, page #8 and page #10
In this last one, tkdb shared a nice chart about the Radiosity settings/results.

In case you didn't find it before this link has a lot of POV-Ray samples - things that you may not be able to set inside Wings3D, but that may need to be of your interest.

Be sure to install the v3.7 and proceed to the installation of POV-Ray editor (that will be asked you in the last dialog of the installer).

Something you may want to know is that POV-Ray offers many material presets in a set of *.inc files (you will find them in .\Documents\POV-Ray\v3.7\include).
It's interesting for metals, glass, stones,...
You will also find a lot of POV-Ray samples under .\Documents\POV-Ray\v3.7\scenes\incdemo - where you can run them in the POV-Ray console and know about these pre-built materials.

Then, you can pick their names and use as the Wings3D material name. Then, in the Material dialog, POV-Ray tab, you check the topmost option "Exclude Material Definition".
This way, only the material name will be exported and in the POV-Ray file you will need to add a line to include the required "*.inc" file.


It will take some time until you find your way to work.

[micheus]

sciroccorics, I started to add some basic information about the lighting settings in the POV-Ray - Tips thread - this post

You will see that although the dialogs have a lot of options we don't need to play with all of them most the time. Some of them are related to the kind of material we are using in the scene.

[sciroccorics]

Thanks a lot for your answer, Micheus. Just after posting my initial question, I discovered your "old" post on Pov-Ray tips (october 2012), which was already very helpful. But your new addition to this thread, this morning, is exactly what I needed !

I also found a "PovRay-Env-Test.zip" file, in another thread of yours, with some examples of HDRI probes. So I am currently testing all this, and things are going much easier now ! Your help is just awesome !

By the way, I also played with Kerkythea and Yafaray, just to compare. I don't really know which renderer is better, as I currently don't understand all options they offer. Seems that Yafaray is more or less dead (yafaray.org is broken). PovRay hasn't changed its version number since 2013, so I guess that Kerkythea may be the most up-to-date...

[oort]

sciroccorics,

Glad micheus is helping you since he is the POV-Ray plugin expert.

I am a big fan of YafaRay and just want to let you know that David (The current developer of YafaRay) is still making updates. Unfortunately the website is down but they are trying to get it back. Has been that way for several weeks so that is not a good sign.

You can download the latest version of YafaRay at the following website.
YafaRay software download page

There are example Wings3D/YafaRay files on my website.

I didn't mean to get off topic but wanted to let you know that YafaRay is not dead...

oort

[micheus]

Thanks for the contribution oort.
I checked with David and there is a site archived that can be used for searches (just a little slow): http://web.archive.org/web/http://www.yafaray.org/

Seems that Yafaray is more or less dead (yafaray.org is broken). PovRay hasn't changed its version number since 2013, so I guess that Kerkythea may be the most up-to-date...

Kerkythea: It was "abandoned" since its creators built the Thea render (payed). Latest version is from Jun 19, 2018;
POV-Ray: It has been maintained in a very slow schedule and the last version is from May 27, 2018 - although they were working on it code until last year (future v3.8 );
YafaRay: It development was "suspended" since 2017, but it's now back on development with the last release from Jul 13, 2020.

So, in this scenario, the Yafaray has a more promissory future.
oort has been sharing here a lot of information about it over the years.

[sciroccorics]

Hi oort,

Nice to read that YafaRay is still active ! Hope that their website will restart soon, as most documentation about the software appears to be directly on "yafaray.org" (at least, all the links found by googling are pointing there).

I tried the test files on your website and the results of YafaRay/Bounty are particularly impressive. It's very cool that you provide some Wings files showing the parameters to be used to get realistic rendering. By combining the infos you both provided, Micheus and you, I guess that I will spend some heavy hours studying all that stuff.

It's really nice to get such an great amount of help. Thanks again !

[sciroccorics]

Hi again, Micheus and Oort,

Just to show my quick progress, made after your friendly help, here is an image generated with Yafaray, using one of my Wings model (I call it "DodecaTangle") combined with a cylindrical mirror : procedural textures, specular reflections, ambient occlusion, area light, soft shadows, everything it working quite smooth !

I could never have achieved such a rendering without your help...

[attachment=632]

[oort]

sciroccorics,

Glad we were able to help. Very nice render.

Just to clarify, in case it is not clear on my website... I only use TheBounty when I want to play with SSS, since TheBounty has not been updated in so long and some things don't work very well compared to the official YafaRay.

If you have trouble with some of the features in YafaRay start a new thread and I will try to help. My examples may not help with rendering a full scene containing multiple objects as you might find in rendering an indoor room or outdoor scene.

Keep up the good work.
oort

[sciroccorics]

Thanks oort,

I'm going to read the Yafaray documentation using the webarchive.org link provided by Micheus. And if I have any question after that, I'll start a new thread containing Yafaray in the title, to avoid confusion (as this thread explicitely mentions POV-Ray, not Yafaray in its title)